Environmental Voices: The PennFuture Podcast
Environmental Voices: The PennFuture Podcast
A Shared Vision for Pennsylvania's Environment and Communities
Environmental Voices: The PennFuture Podcast - Episode 5: A Shared Vision for Pennsylvania's Environment and Communities
As we approach the fall elections, securing our shared vision has never been more urgent. Tune into our latest episode to learn about the behind-the-scenes efforts by more than 30 advocacy organizations to develop “A Shared Vision for Pennsylvania’s Environment and Communities.” This bold document is designed to put Pennsylvania at the forefront of action on climate change and environmental justice to protect our families, create jobs and ensure that every Pennsylvania community benefits. Speakers include organizers from PennFuture, Conservation Voters of Pennsylvania, Sierra Club, and Make the Road Pennsylvania.
- Katie Blume, Conservation Voters of Pennsylvania Political Director
- Michelle Giles, Conservation Voters of Pennsylvania Policy Analyst
- Michael Mehrazar, PennFuture Campaign Manager for Watershed Advocacy
- Jenn Quinn, Sierra Club of Pennsylvania Legislative and Political Director
- Diana Robinson, Make the Road Pennsylvania Civic Engagement Director
Hosted by Travis DiNicola, PennFuture Director of Development
The Shared Vision document can be found at: https://www.pennfuture.org/Files/Admin/PA_CommonAgenda_July2022_3.pdf
For more information about PennFuture, visit pennfuture.org
Welcome back to another episode of environmental voices, the Penn future podcast. My name is Travis de Nicole Penn. Future is director of development and your host environmental voices is sponsored by Penn future Pennsylvania's watchdog for clean air, clean water and clean energy. You can find out more and become a member@pennfuture.org. This year, Pennsylvania voters will choose our next governor and vote elections for our entire state house. And half of our state Senate. Each election marks a renewed opportunity for Pennsylvanians to collectively determine the direction of our common vote. And we strongly believe that the state of our environment must be part of the conversation. That is why for this episode of environmental voices, we are excited to dig deep into a document that we at Penn future helps create. It's called a shared vision for Pennsylvania's environment and communities. This 40 page document highlights the most pressing environmental issues facing the states alongside with the policy solutions that can address them supported by 30 advocacy organizations throughout every corner of the state. We believe that this comprehensive shared vision will be a tool to educate and guide candidates for office on the most important environmental issues facing Pennsylvania, to help summarize what's in the document and what we can do to ensure it becomes a reality. We're gonna be joined by five guests who helped write and edit the document. Our first guest today are Michelle Giles and Michael Miza. Michelle is the policy analyst for conservation voters of Pennsylvania. In that role, Michelle reviews, the environmental impact of state and federal legislation observes public hearings and floor speeches and helps conservation voters of PA develop their policy stances until very recently, Michael served as Penn futures field manager in that role, Michael was responsible for recruiting training and managing volunteers and central PA to advocate for environmental issues. Michael now serves as Penn future's campaign manager for watershed advocacy, leading advocacy campaigns to advance Penn future's work in Susquehanna and Potomac watersheds, Michelle and Michael also served as co-coordinators for the shared vision, helping guide along the process from inception to completion. Michelle, Michael, welcome to environmental voices.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much, Travis, happy to be on.
Speaker 1:Absolutely been looking forward to chatting with you and learning more about shared vision. And throughout this podcast, we're gonna dive into some parts of the shared vision document, uh, more, uh, uh, in a more deep manner, uh, and specific manner. But, uh, I wanna have the two of you give me a bit of an overview of what this document is and Michelle will start with you is a shared vision whose shared vision, is it?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Good question. So it's the shared vision of 30 plus advocacy organizations from across Pennsylvania. We've really worked to make sure we have a good diversity of voices with respect to geography and with respect to different types of organizations. So we have frontline community organizations, um, environmental justice focus, and then larger organizations like conservation voters club future. And, um, we've just really worked together to really a, that shares all of our perspective, all of different experiences.
Speaker 1:And you've been working on this for what about a half year or so?
Speaker 3:Um, honestly kind of been, uh, so fast in 2022. So, um, I would say probably almost a year at this point,
Speaker 1:Michael, tell me a bit more of what exactly this shared vision document's supposed to achieve. I, I know that a couple years back a similar document called the common agenda was created by a partnership of many environmental groups, including most that are involved with shared vision. Is this kind of like a, a, a next stage of that a chapter two or, or how is it, uh, a different perhaps?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a great question. So just think of some context, um, back in 2018, um, the, uh, several, uh, environmental organizations throughout the state came together to create the green in 18 common agenda, which was a really groundbreaking document that represented the first time that the Pennsylvania environmental community spoke together on one voice. And, uh, that document was aimed towards the two GU uh, major gubernatorial candidates, uh, to outline what were the primary, uh, environmental issues that we wanted them to focus on, uh, both during their campaign and, and when they, if they were elected into office. So in 2022 Penn future conservation voters, a PA and several other groups in the steering committee, one to come together to recreate, uh, and update the document. Um, and there were two major things that we wanted to do differently as opposed to 2018 common agenda one, uh, the 2018 common agenda had an environmental justice section, uh, that outlined a lot of environmental issues. However, for 2022, uh, shared vision document, we, uh, intentionally wanted to make sure that environmental justice issues were prevalent throughout the document on each and every page, not just confined to one section and to make sure that we actually did that. We worked really hard throughout the process to involve environmental justice groups, uh, before, during, and after the completion of document. The second major thing we did is rather than just aiming it towards the gubernatorial candidates. Um, we also focused on all the state legislative candidates cause so many of the issues, um, cannot just be solved by a governor alone, but need, uh, legislative input. And so our document focuses on both governor actions, as well as state legislative actions.
Speaker 1:So it, it really is a document that's supposed to guide elected officials and be before we go on. And I, and I want you to give me kind of a, an overview of all the different segments that are in here. Michael, you mentioned environmental justice, and I know we're gonna be talking about environmental justice, uh, throughout this podcast, uh, with our other guests, but for those who don't quite get what that is, could you explain it briefly?
Speaker 2:Sure. And environmental justice is a term that can have different definitions, depending on the context, how we defined it at the shared vision was, uh, communities that are low income and, or, uh, communities of color. And the reason that we focus on those communities is they have been disproportionally not represented in the environmental movement yet they have been overrepresented in environmental harms. Um, and so, uh, the environmental movement has recognized this for a while, but there has been a growing awareness that not focusing on environmental justice, uh, communities is to our detriment. And so we made a, a concrete effort in this process to, to really focus on that, um, every step of the way.
Speaker 1:Excellent. Thank you, Michael Michelle, we've mentioned briefly, I had mentioned briefly air and, and water as sections that are addressed within shared vision, but there's a lot more in there. Uh, can you just give me a quick overview of all the different sections that the, the different groups worked on in this document?
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely. So aside from, um, our policy priorities, including clean air and water, we also have sustainable and eco, uh, and clean energy green housing and land use practices, support for Pennsylvania's workers and a transition to a clean green economy, a democracy that works for all and environmental education being incorporated for all Pennsylvania students in grades, K12.
Speaker 1:Excellent. I was really pleased to see the educational component in there, uh, that, that, that was included. Cause I think that is such an important thing. I mean, you know, here in Pennsylvania, I believe it's been a generation since the last time we actually updated our, uh, science standards in the state, uh, to have anything that even discusses climate change and environmental issues. And so that's such an important thing to have that addressed in this document. I think
Speaker 3:Definitely we had, um, a table of environmental justice organizations that met first and one of the members of that table, Sheia lovely actually presented the idea of environmental education and really wanted to emphasize the fact that you can't really expect kids to grow up to care about an environment that they haven't interacted with, that they haven't learned with. And that incorporating environmental education was important on all levels, not only so that they can learn those important skills in science and technology and engineering mathematics, but also so that they have a buy-in into, in protecting the environment and wanna fight to make sure that leaders today are protecting what they're gonna inherit tomorrow.
Speaker 1:You know, it, that reminds me of, uh, Michael, you and I were actually giving a presentation to some really engaged, bright high school kids that are part of a, a rotary program to get involved in their community. And we'd asked them if, uh, they had ever heard of Greta Thunberg, you know, the very famous, you know, the teenage activist around the world, uh, for environmental issues. And, you know, these kids as, as engaged and, and thoughtful as they were, none of them have, you know, heard of Greta and certainly didn't seem to know a lot about environmental issues. And so I, again, I think it's so important to have that be an element, uh, in the shared vision document, Michael, you had mentioned that when these organizations can future at Sierra club and other groups got together to first do these, these policy recommendations, um, with the green and 18, and then the common agenda that a lot of it was really direct initially to gubernatorial gubernatorial candidates. Now it's, uh, to really anyone running for state office, do people actually do these candidates, these representatives, do any of them actually read the document? I know that sounds quite pessimistic to ask, but I, but I do wonder
Speaker 2:No, that's a, that's a great question and something that we are working hard to make sure we get it into their hands. So they and their teams take a look at it. I think it's important to remember that Pennsylvania is unique, uh, among a few states that actually has, uh, a constitutional right to, um, environmental protections. Uh, and what that means is therefore every candidate running for a state level office needs to have environmental rights be part of their, their platform and part of their policy making when, when they get elected. And so we think it's really important as the environmental and greater advocacy community to educate them on what are, what's the current lay of the land, and what's the vision of where Pennsylvania could go to make that constitutional right. A reality for everyone. Um, so we have been hosting rollout events throughout the state, um, to educate members of the public and elected officials and folks running for office, uh, to, to let them know what's in this document, make sure, sure. They read at least the executive summary mm-hmm<affirmative>. Um, so it's part of the campaign, um, discussion to make sure it's part of this election, uh, cycle,
Speaker 1:You know, it makes me think of, I heard one of our representatives at one point when asked about her knowledge of environmental issues, you know, freely admitted quite honestly, before a politician, that it wasn't something she was an expert in, and that she really relied on groups like Penn future in the Sierra club, you know, to inform her about, uh, these issues and provide the background in information. I think, you know, when you've got an elected official who approaches things like that, you know, and says, you know, look, you know, I'm not an expert in this area. And so I rely on the experts to, you know, help me understand it better so I can make good decisions than, you know, the shared vision documents. Fantastic for that. Right. Um, but I imagine that you also, you know, encounter some resistance on the other side, let's say.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think this goes back to the point you made earlier about the students not being familiar with G there's, there's a big feeling that environmental issues or something that's, you know, not at all relevant to my day to day living that, you know, how, why can I it's as more of a luxury? How can I be concerned about that? If I have to worry about paying the rent, uh, or, or medical expenses and not to belie those, uh, or, um, not to deny that those are real issues, but I think what we, another thing we worked on in this document was to really bring it home to, uh, people's day to day living. Uh, we did that by the number of issues that we focused on. Uh, and also one thing that was unique was we included profiles of individuals in each of the sections that would be benefited, right. Uh, if the policies outlined in the shared vision would come to pass. And I think that just reminds people that at the end of the day, this is not about, uh, you know, just about forest or, or Anang species. Uh, but it's about people. It's about people that can benefit from these concrete policies.
Speaker 1:Michelle, I wanna ask you about, um, how conservation voters of Pennsylvania utilizes the shared vision document, cuz conservation voters is a 5 0 1[inaudible], which means you can actually, uh, support, uh, different candidates and get involved in the political process very directly, whereas Penn future, and many of the other organizations involved in the shared vision document are 5 0 1. [inaudible] where they can support specific policies, but not specific candidates. So that changes things quite a bit. Um, so how does that play out for conservation voters of PA with something like the shared vision document?
Speaker 3:Yeah, that's a really good, um, point you brought up. So in 2018, um, conservation voters did work to get this into the hands of candidates and to have that candidate education and with it being 2022, we're pushing that even more. We're gonna have a candidate education. Um, now that we've actually finished the rollout and presenting it to different, um, organizations into different parts of Pennsylvania. So, uh, we'll be able to use our C4 staff to host events, what we really call for specific aspects of legislation and ask for actual candidates. And we'll also use this opportunity to not only speak to candidates about what we want to see from them, but also to speak with their constituents and be able to tell them that these are the, the different things that we are asking for in the shared vision. And these are our policy priorities, and this is the type of legislation that you should be looking for in candidates and keeping them accountable when they do become the actual elected officials.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. And, and for individuals who are out there listening and, and thinking like, okay, what can I do to promote this shared vision? I mean, is it effective to call up your representative and say, Hey, have you looked at the shared vision document?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So we're gonna have opportunities for people to, well already it's available online for them to read. And we're going to have opportunities where we'll have different educational aspects for members to learn more about aspects of the shared vision that might appeal to them more and make them want to call their legislators about it. And they can definitely point them in direction of this. But like you said earlier, this isn't just a way for candidates and for legislators to have a blueprint about how they should govern themselves when they are putting forward these different policy points. So also an opportunity for their constituents to keep calling them and saying, Hey, I recall that you said you were in support of this. Mm-hmm,<affirmative> the legislation that you're supporting now is not in line with that and keep them accountable.
Speaker 1:Excellent. So I wanna ask you both one last question before we get into the other interviews, uh, and more specific sections of the shared vision document, but there have to be, I, I don't know, I didn't count, but I'm guessing over a hundred or more recommendations, very specific recommendations about policy throughout this document that covers all the areas we've discussed. Um, if you could, I know it's not easy to pick a favorite, but Michael, I might start with you. What is one very specific recommendation that you are just very pleased is included in the shared vision document that you think is, is particularly important to have here?
Speaker 2:No, that's a, that's a fantastic question. And, uh, you're gonna get me in trouble for, uh, calling out one and specifically, and, and leaving the other ones, right.
Speaker 1:It's like thinking a favorite child. Right. But there you go.
Speaker 2:It's like thinking a favorite child. I, I would say one of the ones I'm particularly happy made it in was, um, it specifically says utilize in, uh, infrastructure investment in jobs act funds. And that was a bill passed last year by Congress to support pedestrian biking and public transit, transportation infrastructure. Uh, I think that's so important. Uh, a lot of our cities, frankly, are not accessible for folks without cars. They, um, uh, that has a huge, uh, justice and environmental cost. And I think, uh, we have a real opportunity in Pennsylvania to make our, uh, cities and towns, uh, more accessible on foot and via public transportation. So I'm, I'm happy that one made it
Speaker 1:Excellent. Michelle, I'm ask you the same question.
Speaker 3:I was really worried because Michael and I are always still in line that I, that he was gonna pick my favorite one. Cause that was a really good one, but luckily they are different. So my favorite one is the defense against legislative attempts to roll back voting rights and access. And this includes attempts to eliminate voting by mail and to Institute voter ID requirements. And it's really because this entire document is about intersectionality. And it's about how these different aspects that you don't necessarily think are about the environment are actually all connected. And that includes democracy. So the fact that we went to different community organizations and had them tell us what their communities have been asking for and what issues that they're facing really is what really spurred this document to be different than what it was in 2018 and made it more accessible to more people and something else that should be accessible to everyone is the ballot box. And we wanna continue to protect that because protecting democracy really is what's gonna protect the environment.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Yeah. There's a, there's a lot of, uh, different categories or subcategories in here that on first glance, you think, what does that really have to do with the environment, but as you dig deep into it, uh, you do see that intersectionality and it makes so much sense how everything is connected. And I think we're gonna learn a little bit more of that with, uh, the conversations that we're having on this podcast with our other guests today. Michael Michelle, thank you both so much for being on environmental voices and for the work that you've done with the shared vision document, it's greatly appreciated.
Speaker 2:Hey, it was a joy, Travis, thank you very much. Thank
Speaker 3:You for having us.
Speaker 1:Second guest is Jen Quinn. Jen is the legislative and policy director for the Sierra club's Pennsylvania chapter S CPA as the legislative and political director. She spends a lot of time in Harrisburg working for sensible science based environmental policies that protect the public health and our natural resources. Jen was also the primary author for both the air and water sections of the shared vision. Jen, welcome to environmental voices.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. So air water are two pretty important things. And even though I know a lot of environmentalists know this by heart, I'm still gonna read just the first, uh, couple words of article one, section 27 of Pennsylvania's constitution that the people have a right to clean air, pure water. So it's right there. We have a right to clean air and pure water. How are we doing with that?
Speaker 4:<laugh> well, that's, uh, it's great that you bring that up, Travis. Um, yeah, air and water. Very important. We need it for life, right? Um, unfortunately we're not doing too well on, on either of those fronts. Um, as you probably know, Pennsylvania is blessed with abundant water resources. I think we're second only to Alaska in a number of stream miles, but roughly a third of those stream miles are impaired.
Speaker 1:I have the number in front of me here, and this is, I mean directly from the shared vision. It's 86,000 miles of river streams and creeks, which is amazing. And you're saying that about a third is impaired,
Speaker 4:Roughly a third of those are impaired. Yeah. Legacy pollution from coal mining, agricultural runoff, you know, um, urban and suburban storm water makes it, so these waters don't meet the standards for like what's fishable, what's swimmable, what's drinkable, essentially levels of safety.
Speaker 1:Wow. That, that that's just so stunning and disappointing. And in the report too, it's specifically references water. That's been impaired from abandoned mind drainage or AMD. And that makes almost up a 10th of our water. And, you know, I, I I've been fortunate or maybe unfortunate enough to, to see that in person, what that's like and you know, these beautiful, beautiful streams that are basically just like sort of orange toxic sludge because of the runoff from mines, from in some cases 50 or a hundred years ago, that's still polluting the water.
Speaker 4:Yep. Legacy mining pollution. I live in the Northeast. So I am very, very familiar with orange streams and, and orange creeks, but it's a, it's a huge problem. You can even see it on Google earth. Um, if you check out the, the lack of honor river near the old forge boar hall, one of the largest discharges, um, in the state just yeah, tremendous impacts, um, reaches all the way to the Chesapeake bay and the impacts that AMD has on our
Speaker 1:Waters. So we know that water is not great right now in Pennsylvania. How about air? We're doing great in air,
Speaker 4:Unfortunately. No. Um, Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have some of the worst air quality in the country and then places in central Pennsylvania, um, unfortunately are trending the wrong way too. Like Lancaster county has terrible air. Um, the Southeastern part of the state like Lehigh valley, um, is starting to sort of trend the wrong way and having, um, dirtier and dirtier air.
Speaker 1:Wow. So we have a lot of issues to deal with. Let's talk about some solutions because there are certainly a lot of recommendations within the shared vision document. Uh, highlight a few of them for me, please.
Speaker 4:Sure. Um, so water, you know, we mentioned legacy pollution. There's also lead, um, lead types, right. Impacting people. Then we have some of these forever or the, the newer emerging chemicals, the P a S the P F mm-hmm<affirmative>. Um, so how can we address these issues? Right. Well, one, we can establish some dedicated funding for lead service lines, right? So children aren't drinking lead contaminated water, pretty, pretty straightforward solution. Let's remove these lines also more testing for the very youngest kids. Right. So we can find where this lead contamination is. Okay. Um, also, yeah. Um, we can also establish what's called, um, an MC, right? That's a maximum contaminant level, essentially a limit for those emerging chemicals that, that I mentioned the P O S and the PFOA, right. Making sure that there's a small amount as possible in our water. I think five parts per trillion, six parts per trillion, um, is what the, the shared vision recommends, cuz again, these chemicals or they emerging they're forever. They don't break down once they're here, they're here and we're trying to figure out how do we deal with these things? Um, and then investing, right. We can invest in urban and suburban storm water management. We can invest in acid, mine, water remediation, um, remediating and, and cleaning up the, the land as well as the water, um, throughout the Northeast to deal with abandoned mine drainage. Um, and then again, urban and suburban storm water in other areas
Speaker 1:You mentioned lead. I wanna go back to that for just a moment, because for a long time it seemed as though there was kind of a sense, like, okay, there could be a little bit of lead, but now what is being, uh, said is that there is no safe level of lead, is that correct?
Speaker 4:Correct. Yeah. And I think something like 5% of Pennsylvania's children have elevated levels of lead in their blood at more than two times the national rate. And we know like lead, like you said, there's no safe level. It causes lifelong developmental impacts, behavioral impacts just totally not safe. And it's something that these types are so old, they should have been removed ages ago. And it's still this legacy issue we have,
Speaker 1:You know, and lead is something we certainly know a lot about the plastics issue though, you know, especially these, you know, forever chemicals. I mean, we're still really studying it and, and there's still a lot of unknowns as far as, you know, how toxic these are, if there are any safe levels. I mean, because the, the plastics, they don't go away, they just get smaller and smaller and end up in our bodies.
Speaker 4:Yeah. So we have, you know, the plastics that everyone sees, right? Like the, the plastic bags and forks and straws and things like that. But then you have, like, we have the microplastics that they're finding, I think in like the deepest parts of the ocean and, and peaks of mountains and, and yeah, these microplastics are also just here seemingly forever.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's, it is really frightening stuff on, on a, on a more positive side though. Um, there is, uh, a lot of, uh, discussion within the shared vision of, um, growing greener three and, and the idea of making sure that we all have access to nature and outdoor recreation areas.
Speaker 4:Yes, absolutely. Um, growing greener, super successful program, um, lots of bipartisan support for years, um, money for our state parks and forests, local trails conserving open space, conserving farmland, remediating waterways. So yeah, a really wonderful program. Like I said, that's had a lot of successes, a lot of support. I think the shared vision, um, at the time of its writing was calling for roughly like 500 million.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, that's actually kind of an exciting thing because you know, some of these things that are in shared vision, I know that that all the different organizations and the teams were working on it for months and months, and then, uh, you know, what's really exciting is that during the course of that time, some of the things actually already happened and passed and, uh, you know, as part of the, the new state parks and recreation funds. So that's, I mean, that's a great positive right there. Right?
Speaker 4:Exactly. I mean, what we saw in, um, in investment in growing greener, or what's now being referred to a state parking recreation, clean streams fund, um, and funding for like water and source through the Commonwealth financing authority. These are the largest investments we've seen in those sorts of programs in over a decade. So yeah, it was phenomenal to, to work on this and to, to see it passed.
Speaker 1:And, and, you know, there is a history here that two years ago, there was a document created by a lot of the same organizations involved with shared vision called the common agenda. That was, you know, a similar document in terms of being created to provide recommendations on environmental issues, to elected officials. And so a lot of that was in there already that, you know, now they're finally acting on, right. That it wasn't just that, you know, they got in front of shared vision. It's, you know, you can look back and, you know, we've been working on this for a long time to, to get these, uh, you know, great things to happen.
Speaker 4:Correct. Yes. We've all been sort of beating the drum on more conservation funding for a very long time. Cuz these programs, like I said, are really successful and there's always more demand for these programs and there is funding available. So it's great to see this sort of infusion coming into this program.
Speaker 1:So let's talk about air cuz that's also pretty important.
Speaker 4:Agreed. It is very important.
Speaker 1:<laugh> what, uh, what's a recommendation, uh, within the air section that you're, you were really pleased to see was made.
Speaker 4:Sure. So I mean, one of the most basic things, more air quality monitoring, right. If we wanna know what's happening, we need to monitor for it. And that, that doesn't seem like it's a, a heavy lift to me, it seems pretty sensible. Um, more and better setbacks when it comes to industrial facilities and gas facilities, right? Ensuring there's a buffer between schools and homes and hospitals and these industrial processes happening. Um, also like more investment in clean energy and energy efficiency. If we're planning on transitioning away from fossil fuels, we need to see these investments and then, um, a push to stay in in Reggie, right. Reggie helping to address
Speaker 1:The regional greenhouse gas initiative. Mm-hmm<affirmative><affirmative>
Speaker 4:Yep. I, I apologize for speaking. That's right. The acronyms yeah. Setting, setting limits on the pollution coming from, from power plants, right? Their carbon pollution, um, setting that limit's a big step forward for acting on climate in Pennsylvania. And then also, you know, the proceeds that are generated from that cap and trade that limit that they have through the Reggie options, those proceeds can then be invested in clean energy, energy efficiency worker, transition for communities who are impacted environmental justice communities. So there's so many great opportunities to improve air quality in Pennsylvania. It's really exciting. I hope that, um, legislators and, and the new governor really takes, takes a close look at this and takes it seriously. Mm-hmm
Speaker 1:<affirmative> Jen, let me ask you about a phrase that's used in the report that I don't know that I've seen before, and that is a cumulative environmental impact. What exactly does that mean? Help me understand that better.
Speaker 4:Sure. Um, so currently when a permit is issued in Pennsylvania for a develop right industrial development, a gas, well, some sort of industrial facility or process, they don't look
Speaker 1:At, these are permits that are usually issued through the department of environmental protection, right?
Speaker 4:Correct. Yes. A permit that allows this facility to be built or to operate. Um, that's looked at in isolation as just this facility, what is this facility doing? It doesn't look at the next facility, the facility, a mile away, the facility, two miles away, the facility five miles away. So it's doing all of this in isolation. Whereas in reality, cumulatively, the impacts of those together can be really harmful. And that's something that is unfortunately largely ignored, right? We're looking at these things in isolation where, okay, there's a little pollution from this facility. There's a little more from this facility. But if we have many of these facilities, especially in, you know, a, a smaller area, then those impacts are really dramatic people. Living there are dealing with compounded effects of these
Speaker 1:And often those areas are environmental justice communities. Correct?
Speaker 4:Unfortunately, yes.
Speaker 1:Okay. So the cumulative impact on, uh, lower income, uh, communities, uh, communities of color often that commu cumulative impact is a lot higher than what's actually being considered for these permits. Is that I'm I'm I think I understand it now
Speaker 4:That is an accurate assessment of the situation. Yes.
Speaker 1:The, the shared vision recommends that we have cumulative permitting. Is that right?
Speaker 4:Correct. Yes. And that, um, if this sort of cumulative impact, so they say we should do an assessment first. Right. Which makes sense. See, what's happening there first make an assessment. And if it's shown that there will be a significant impact on an already impacted community to then deny that permit based on those increased impacts, which makes sense to me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. Well, there's a lot of stuff in shared vision that makes sense to you and me let's hope. It makes sense to some other people too.
Speaker 4:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Jen, I want to thank you very much for taking the time today to talk about air, water, and shared vision for environmental voices. We greatly appreciate it.
Speaker 4:Sure. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Our next guest is Diana Robinson. Diana is the civic engagement director for make the road Pennsylvania, make the road seeks to build power among immigrants and working class communities of color through community organizing policy innovation, transformative education, and dismantling systematic oppression through civic engagement and advocacy. Diana was one of the co-authors of the housing and land use section of the shared vision document. Diana, welcome to environmental voices.
Speaker 5:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. You know, I think it's a really interesting subject matter to take on housing and land use in the shared vision document. And it's something that, you know, some people may think, well, what does that have to do with environmental work? But it reminds me of once hearing a state representative say that she had grown up in kind of a urban, suburban area and didn't really, you know, spend time going out to parks with her family or hiking in the woods or anything like that. And didn't consider herself an environmentalist, but then realizes now that in fact, you know, that the home you live in the house, you live in, the neighborhood you live in, that is your environment. And now she does consider herself an environmentalist. And in some ways that's kind of what it seems. This section of the shared vision document is getting to that, you know, uh, that the environment doesn't have to be just, you know, far away forest and wildlife, but it's, it's exactly where you live and how you get around where you live.
Speaker 5:Exactly. Like we know that our communities that make the road Pennsylvania have been impacted by the impacts of the environmental crisis that we are, um, currently living through mm-hmm<affirmative> and that, you know, whether it's asthma rates and things like that, that we have been impacted by climate stuff. And that, that plays into our environment. Um, the neighborhoods we live in, you know, like you said, access to green spaces and things like that, and that that's just something community, communities of color have been, uh, struggling with and kinda organizing around for for many years.
Speaker 1:You talk about a lot of very specific things that you'd like to see done, uh, in this, in this section of the document. Um, let's talk about a couple of those. One of them is just looking at issues like lead poisoning and, and exposure to that in people's homes. And that's something that, and I think a lot of people think, well, you know, that used to happen before, but that doesn't happen anymore, but it truly does, right?
Speaker 5:Yeah. That continues to happen. And we just feel there should be stronger enforcement and support for people who are being impacted by this. We know there's so many long term effects to lead poisoning. Um, many children are impacted by this. Um, so just having better enforcement and support and just getting rid of all lead based pain and things like that, you know, we know a lot of older homes may have that. So ensuring that people are safe, that, um, renovations are happening to get rid of the poisonous toxin
Speaker 1:Is part of the issue that Pennsylvania just does have so many older homes. I mean, I, you know, the house that I live in was built in 1895 as our, all the, you know, houses in our neighborhood. And so you've, you know, certainly got issues with, uh, you know, insulation and, uh, and, and other things as well. Is that just a big part of it in Pennsylvania?
Speaker 5:I do believe that is, uh, one big part of it, right. That they're older homes. Um, and also, I think there's an aspect of predatory landlords who sometimes are taking advantage of folks who, um, have little resources and need somewhere to live. And, you know, aren't making repairs, aren't addressing issues that are happening in the home. So I do think it, it's a combination of those things. You know, there are so many connections between all these issues that are affecting different communities, working class communities and communities of color, um, where we see that they're, you know, they're living in homes that are not adequate, they're being impacted, um, by view environmental injustices. Um, so I think there are so many connections that we don't often think about how these things are connected. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, for example, we have a member, um, in Lehigh county Angelo, and because of hurricane Ida, he was impacted his basement flooded. And, and because of that, all these toxins, um, were released within the home and it caused a lot of issues. So these are things that people are currently living through. I know in Lehigh county, because of flooding, that happens constantly when there's heavy rain people aren't able to access public transportation. Mm-hmm<affirmative>. And so people are kinda isolated. They can't take the bus cause the bus can't run because the streets are completely,
Speaker 1:Yeah. Public transportation is a big part of this section as well. Right. I mean, looking at whether it's, uh, you know, where housing is being, uh, developed, whether they're bike lanes, whether there's public transportation, but that, that the transportation issue, uh, I think maybe that surprised me a bit, that that seems to get so much attention within the housing and land use section here. Tell me a bit more about that.
Speaker 5:Yeah. Well, the issue is like we're talking about working class communities, poor communities who don't, um, own vehicles and public transportation is their only means of, um, getting around. And when they can't do that, they really are in a hard place. Right. They can't afford to take an Uber in their Lyft or something like that. Um, so it also impacts how they can get to work and things like that. So I think, you know, these issues are all connected. Like neighborhoods, people live in the conditions of the home access to public transportation, things like that. There's many connections to this that can correlate it to resources that are in communities, working class communities and communities of color.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It certainly is a big issue. I mean, there may be, you know, great jobs available that, you know, you don't need advanced degrees for, uh, but they may be located places where you do need, you know, a vehicle to get to that job from a place that you can afford to live. And if the two don't connect, it can be extremely difficult for a lot of people to, uh, be able to do that.
Speaker 5:Exactly. Like, um, you know, it doesn't serve the community well, if there are these good paying jobs, but people don't have access to transportation to get there, or it just, the cost of getting there outweighs the, the pay that they're going to receive. Sure. So I think it's a lot, um, that has to be thought of when we're thinking about city planning, job creation and things like that. Um, and just like environmental impacts that, you know, when we think about new warehouses and, and things like that, that are coming into communities, like, because the jobs are welcome, people do need jobs, but there's a bigger picture, right? Thinking about, are these good jobs also, what's the impact on the environment on these communities? Is it gonna add pollution? You know, things like that, where we see oftentimes where communities of color are impacted, um, by this, where in the pursuit of jobs, uh, other ills happen in community.
Speaker 1:So we've talked about, I mean, some very specific recommendations and concerns that are in this, but I know there's a lot more that I haven't even touched on Dana. What's something else that you would like people to be aware of that's um, addressed in the housing and land use section of the shared vision document.
Speaker 5:Yeah, we're so excited that just recently, um, in the budget 125 million has been advocated for investments repair and update aging homes across Pennsylvania. Um, that's a huge win the whole home repairs act. Um, and it's gonna benefit so many Pennsylvanians across the state, um, because we know people do not have the funds to rebuild, you know, so being able to make these small repairs so that they can continue living in their homes and make their home safer, it's gonna, um, have such a big impact. Um, and it's gonna impact members like Angelo, who now, uh, because they cannot do that on their own now can get some support to make those repairs after flooding and, um, things like that happens to their homes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's a really exciting thing. I mean, that allows people to make their homes more energy efficient and safer, and, uh, whether it's insulation or, uh, even eventually, you know, things like solar panels, but just, or basically improving a roof or getting toxins out of a house. Right. I mean, there's, there's a lot of things that that's really gonna help a lot of, of, of especially lower and middle income homeowners be able to do.
Speaker 5:Yes, absolutely. And, uh, we are tremendously happy that I was able to pass, you know, the efforts of groups like ours meet throughout Pennsylvania and other groups who were advocating for it along with, um, Senator, uh, Al
Speaker 1:Excellent. Diana, anything else you wanna wanna add before we wrap up this segment of environmental voices?
Speaker 5:Yeah. I just wanted to add that, you know, for make the road Pennsylvania, all these issues are interconnected. We understand that to build, um, for economic justice, climate justice and immigrant justice, um, it's a collaborative effort and that all these communities are impacted by these issues and we are stronger when we together. Um, and that's why we're so excited to be part of the common agenda and to be part of this vision, um, for the future of Pennsylvania, one that is, um, good for everyone. And we're excited to see how, um, our solutions that we're proposed are taken on, um, by different, um, elected officials and people who impact our government across the state to be able to make these changes that will benefit, um, everyone,
Speaker 1:Anna. Excellent. Yeah, it, it is great to see so many different organizations come together and even greater to see that the shared vision document is already having an impact on policy and decisions that are being made. Diana, thank you so much for being on environmental voices today. It's a real pleasure to chat with you.
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker 1:And our final guest today is Katie blue. Katie is conservation voters of Pennsylvania's political director like Jen. She spends a lot of time in Harrisburg working to advance pro environmental bills and halt those harmful to the environment. Katie was the chief author of the shared vision's labor section, Katie, welcome to environmental voices.
Speaker 4:Thanks Travis.
Speaker 1:It is great to have you here and to have a chance to talk about the really interesting work that you've been doing, uh, specifically with the shared vision. You know, a lot of the categories I found were expected, you know, air water, uh, and such labor is one that I think would perhaps surprise a lot of people. But at the same time, if you really look back at both the history of the labor movement and the environmental movement, they were quite aligned for so many years in terms of working together for workplace safety, working together for public parks. I mean, even as recently as early seventies with, uh, OSHA, the occupational safety and health administration act, the two, the two movements were really working hand in hand, but these days it seems so often that labor and environmental movements are, are butting heads. And really the vision that you have here is to bring them back together. Is that correct?
Speaker 4:Correct. Uh, we do definitely want to bring them back together. You are absolutely on point with the fact that for many, many years labor and the environment have worked together, you lifted up some great examples. And I keep thinking back to our neighboring state, West Virginia, um, and all of the organizing around, uh, labor rights and the environment that happened there. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, and the, and we think about the, the original, I wanna call it the, the citizens, uh, or the conservation core. Right. And we were thinking about like, let's do a climate core with this new bill. Um, and we, we couldn't get it done this this term with, with Congress, but when we think about the civilian conservation core from the new deal, right. Um, bringing jobs and the environment together, uh, so yeah, and this is, this is what we wanna do. Um, we think there's, we think there's space for it. And we're starting with this shared vision with some very basic promises that we're pretty excited about and excited to lift up.
Speaker 1:Let's talk about the, the conservation core, cause you mentioned, you know, back in the new deal, of course, you know, there were great opportunities for so many labors to work on creating, you know, public parks and infrastructure for those parks. And, you know, there was a lot of, uh, uh, coalitions working together then. Um, so what is this idea of a 21st century civilian conservation core? I've heard that talked about a lot, but try to explain that a little bit more, what that would look like.
Speaker 4:Yes. So it would be pretty similar, uh, with a federal master federal investment to put people to work in various spaces. And there's a couple different ideas. And I know that our wonderful colleagues at Penn future have been working on some of them with reimagined Appalachia and some other groups, but there's a couple different schools of thought out there about it. Um, whether you get people to work into green energy and green technology sectors, whether you are putting people to work in conservation efforts, when we look at extreme flooding or how we know that the Pennsylvania department of conservation and natural resources has a huge backlog of deferred maintenance, mm-hmm<affirmative> um, do you do something there in, in states? So there's a couple different schools of thought about what that could ultimately look like. There's a few different opinions on it. I think every single one of those opinions is absolutely valid and needed. Um, and I think it would be neat to see going forward and what the shared vision labor section really does is focus a lot more on the green energy and technology space. Okay. That if we, if we are gonna move forward into, I don't wanna call it a just transition. I wanna call it a real transition because we have to do this. We know that we are seeing the effects of climate change right now. I think there's a spot in, um, Western Pennsylvania that hasn't seen rain in, I think 85 days. Wow. Yeah. And it's pretty localized luckily, but I think we see these effects right now. And the way to move forward is to make sure that nobody is left behind, which means recognizing climate change exists, we need to transition. It's going to have to be a real transition that is fair and equitable, and that means not leaving existing workers behind. And it means also providing opportunities to new workers. We also tried to address, uh, formally incarcerated individuals having access to the workplace. Mm-hmm<affirmative> people in environmental justice communities and historically disinvested communities, making sure that they have access to transportation to get to jobs. Um, and there's a lot of different factors that really kind of contribute to this that we tried to highlight. I think, I think I could probably write a, a whole doctoral thesis on this. Uh, but there's, we, we paired it down into a few pages into a shared vision, uh, to put it all together. But if I were dreaming, I would love to see sort of the environmental and labor together hand in hand days of your, of, you know, 75 and a hundred years ago. So
Speaker 1:Sure, sure. I mean, how realistic is this? I mean, this idea that maybe people who are, are working in the fossil fuel industry, having labor jobs that pay well, how realistic is it for them to get the training and the opportunity to transition to a, a clean energy economy and working, and whether it be, you know, solar or wind or, or something else,
Speaker 4:If we want to do this tomorrow, we do not have things in place to do this tomorrow. Okay. If we want to do this in a year or two years, I think we do. Um, what has happened is greedy fossil fuel corporations. And we all know how greedy they are, you know, they're, they're on the news media marketing that they've doubled their first quarter profits in the second quarter and they're Bri about it. So we know greedy corporations are doing a great job, dividing labor and environment. Mm-hmm<affirmative>, um, they, they don't necessarily treat workers well, and we know they pollute the environment, right? So I think if we make sure that we have elected officials at all levels of government, a shared vision is written toward our, our state government. But I think at all levels of government who recognize there can be a real partnership. We can make sure that we have appropriate workforce education programs. We have appropriate transportation in place. We have appropriate worker protections in place. If we are doing environmental regulations, there's no reason we can't do regulations around workers. If we want to build some sort of new facility, I think we, as the environment need to say, okay, we, we have, we have this list of demands to say, we wanna make sure there's good air and water quality standards. We wanna make sure there's, um, agreements for the communities. But we also wanna make sure that we're using Pennsylvania labor and Pennsylvania materials. And we have a state legislature that can step up and do those things, and they can write those things into builds, but we have to get there. And right now it's very divided. Um, I think by, by corporate financial interests, but we, we have an opportunity.
Speaker 1:I think it's very clear Katie, that, that you are pro-labor and, and actually a lot of the environmental movement is, but what do you hear back mm-hmm<affirmative> from people on the other side, from, from people representing labor regarding issues like this.
Speaker 4:Well, and some of it is, um, one big thing that I have heard from folks, and I didn't know this I've, I've always been a pro environment. Prolab kind of person, uh, call me an idealist. I'm happy to be there. But one thing that I've learned from friends in the labor movement, especially in the trades are things like multi-employer pensions. Hmm. So when you are in a specialized field, and this is something I was, I'm glad I learned about, I didn't realize how big of a deal it was when you're in a very specialized field. And you go say, you spend a year building at one job and then a year building at another job. And so on, your pension has to basically kind of the simplest way to explain this is like transfer employers. Right.
Speaker 1:Okay. Right. Sure.
Speaker 4:And it's really per, so protecting those pensions, especially when, Hmm. Uh, maybe it's a different industry where you maybe don't necessarily get paid as much. I mean, I would hope that we pay people in green energy as much as we do fossil fuel energy. I think that is fair. Mm-hmm<affirmative> um, so, and the other thing is, is that it takes a lot less time, for example, to build a solar field than it does to build something like the beaver cracker plant. Sure. You know, that's taken six years, but it could take a lot less time to build a solar field. So it's, it's putting into those pensions for those workers. That is definitely a big concern that they have. And I think that's understandable. And I think the environmental community needs to recognize that as well. Mm-hmm<affirmative> and I think it's incumbent on us in the environmental movement to work with environmental businesses, which we do to encourage them to be pro labor. And I think both, both labor and environment and some of these new green businesses can really come together and create a new model. Again, I said, I'm an idealist. I'm happy to admit that mm-hmm<affirmative>. Um, but I do think it is possible, but we're gonna need some help from our legislature. And that's what some of those policy priorities in the shared vision are for is to kind of lay that out and say, these are just some steps that you can take to start turning this around.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you about the something, uh, a very specific that's mentioned in the shared vision and that is present Biden's justice 40 initiative. What exactly is that?
Speaker 4:Whew. All right. So justice 40. Um, I, I'm going to try to this down as briefly as possible. Okay. In two sentences, maybe I'm gonna, I'm gonna aim for two sentences. Justice 40 is president Biden's commitment to environmental justice, uh, communities in particular. So what we're talking about, black brown, indigenous low income communities across this country that have been historically disinvested and historically polluted, and also workers being historically mistreated. And frankly, a lot of our more low wage workers live in communities like this mm-hmm<affirmative>. And this is, so this is environmental justice community. When you have a fossil fuel industry worker, you know, let's think about coal miners, right? Like old coal towns, the company towns, they are living in the communities that are also being polluted. So we have to address some of these justice 40 principles, and it's a whole, whole long list,
Speaker 1:But it, that sounds like it's a very important thing to do to make sure that equity is a big part of how we move forward with this.
Speaker 4:Correct. And that is part of the reason this is not the shared vision. Although there have been builds enacted since we wrote a shared vision, but with the inflation reduction act, right, there's 60 billion going to environmental justice communities. And some of that is related to labor mm-hmm,<affirmative> where they want to better transportation, uh, better transportation facilities, because we know that communities have been split by highways, sort of a, you know, a highway, a form of redlining mm-hmm<affirmative> and bringing communities back into places where it's accessible to get to good paying jobs. And we just would prefer those jobs be union jobs.
Speaker 1:Katie, let me ask you one more question. This is very specific, but it's something that I really still confused by, and that is the, the capping of, of Wells and, and I in Pennsylvania, I mean, my understanding is that there are literally thousands and thousands of, of Wells that are, you know, sending pollution into the air in some cases maybe causing more pollution than even our manufacturing or transportation industries. And they're just shooting the stuff up in the air and they need to be capped mm-hmm<affirmative> and there is now money available to do that, I believe. But why is it taken so long and why is, is it so hard? I mean, it seems like that alone that you could put thousands of people to work doing nothing but capping, ethane and methane, and what have you, and really make a big dent in the amount of pollution that's in our air.
Speaker 4:You are absolutely correct on how it works. And it's usually a methane emission and methane is huge on greenhouse gases, air quality, et cetera. And the one thing I want listeners to always remember is Pennsylvania is an extractive state for our entire history. So from timber to discovering oil in Pennsylvania, to coal, uh, and now natural gas, we have always been an extractive state. Uh, it took a long time for Pennsylvania to re timber and to have some of these gorgeous state forests and parks that we have now just after the timber industry in the early 18 hundreds. So we now have this problem with Wells mm-hmm<affirmative> and we have several companies, there's a lot of smaller companies that are trying to build up their infrastructure to be able to do this. And there are also larger companies. We would prefer that the companies who do this are Pennsylvania companies and not someone from say Wyoming, okay, because we want our workers to be getting paid. Uh, that is some of the, the slowness of the process. The other issue is, and we, we just saw this in a legislative fight recently. Uh, we also wanna make sure that the companies who are doing this, um, don't just take this, the federal money and run either, right? Mm-hmm<affirmative>, uh, we wanna make sure everything's appropriately bonded and things like that. So hopefully we can start moving, uh, the infrastructure, um, and jobs act, the federal money that is supplying Pennsylvania with the money to do this. Pennsylvania has applied for those funds. They have given the, the United States government, the list, uh, I don't believe specific numbers have come down yet. Okay. Uh, there is gonna be a layer of bureaucracy to kind of get this going, but I imagine that we will see a lot of work being done on this next year pretty quickly.
Speaker 1:That would be great.
Speaker 4:Um, it's, it's one of those things that if we have, it's think about your tax return, I mean, sometimes you wish you had it back in a month. Sometimes it takes six
Speaker 1:<laugh>. Fair enough. Okay. Well, Katie, I wanna thank you very much for your work on the shared vision as well as for taking time to speak to us today on environmental voices. It's been a real pleasure, Katie. Thank you so much.
Speaker 4:Thank you, Travis.
Speaker 1:And that does it for this episode of environmental voices, the Penn future podcast. Thank you to Michelle Giles. Michael Miza, Jen Quinn, van Robinson and Katie blue. If these conversations spark your interest, we encourage you to read the report for yourself. You can find it at Penn future.org/shared vision. If you like what it says, we encourage you. Please share it with friends, family, and your community. For our next episode, we are planning on holding a comprehensive discussion on the historic climate investments. In the inflation reduction. You enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe and leave behind a review of environmental voices, the Penn future podcast, wherever you get your podcast. And as always, please let us know what you'd like to hear on future episodes. Environmental voices is sponsored by Penn future Pennsylvania's watchdog for clean air, clean water and clean energy. You can find out more and become a member@pennfuture.org. And if you're interested in becoming a sponsor, please let us know. Today's show was written by Michael Miza. It was produced by Michael Miza with additional marketing help from Annie Regan. The executive producer is Matt step. Our music is thanks to PAB bay.com. I'm your host and audio engineer. Travis D. Thank you for listening to environmental voices to.
